Wednesday, September 30, 2009

Damned If You Do . . .

Damned if you don't. It seems that Michael Moore has announced that any Democrats who don't support Public Option financing of health care reform are going to be campaigned against by he and his ilk. So, if you are a Democrat officeholder, and you don't support public option you will be run out of office. And if you do support public option, you will be run out of office by everyone else.
Times are hard for the ruling party.


Auntie Lib said...

Confusius say: "Man who straddle fence end up with picket up his butt." Just the way it is, I guess. A smart man figures out what a majority of his constituents want and play to the side of the room with the bigger crowd.

Steve said...

They were once known as Mugwumps. Mugs on one side of the fence, and their "wumps" on the other.
Continuing a proud tradition.

Mark T said...

I think what Moore is a vital thing that our system really needs - accountability. The problem is, with Democrats behaving like right wingers in the pockets of insurance companies, that we can only turn to Republicans right wingers in the pockets of insurance companies.

So you have to take a larger view of our system, where left wing views are pretty much frozen out of the mainstream. What Moore is doing is really an expression of frustration. I get that totally. He sees a majority of the public,doctors and nurses favorign single payer, and that taken off the table. He sees overwhelming public support for a meaningful public option. And he sees Democrats buckling under corporate pressure.

Anyway, what he is doing is trying to hold htem accountable. That needs be done.

I assume by "everyone else", you mean the 20-30% of the public that don't support a public option?

Steve said...

Mark - Again with the made up numbers. Although to be fair, I could agree that people are willing to have reform, so long as it doesn't affect them and their health care.
And as tot he doctors and nurses, don't confuse the AMA and the ANA with the people they purport to represent. They were already bought off by the Obama syndicate.
You confuse your desires with facts. They really aren't the same thing.

Mark T said...

Well, I think it's safe to say that with many, if not most issues, the politicians are far to the right of the public. Single payer is not a new phenomenon - it's been that way for years - the public has long wanted what the politicians will not give them, because they public only votes, but does not finance, politicians.

There's so much more to it that that - I think there is a lot of negative pressure out there too - wiretaps and girlfriends and unusual receipt of income. Control of elected officials is not easy.

But once elected,they do change colors. I do sense that right wingers in office have the liberty of saying what they think, while liberals have to say one thing and do another. That's why Baucus stutters.

I wonder if many Republicans are more moderate than they present, merely playing for the base.

Mark T said...

That reminds me of something that I read about years ago - the Montana Drug Pipeline. As the story goes, there was too much interdiction of drugs going on in the Caribbean, and the runners decided they had to go around and into the states through another source. They decided to go into Canada, cross country, and down through Montana, as the place has so much untended border and so much dirt between the light bulbs.

As the story was written, local cops in small towns along the border and points south began to get offers for sex from pretty girls, and invitations to parties where they were known to engage in Clinton-like behavior. They were compromised.

At the same time, a deposit of $5,000 or so turned up in Marc Racicot's NW Bancorp checking account. Don't get me wrong - Racicot was pure as driven snow. But someone was "sheepdipping" him making him look guilty.

It is that easy -anyone elected in DC can be sheepdipped. There's no shortage of beautiful women who will make themselves available to you, and as with Gary Hart and John Edwards, kiss and tell.

It takes an exceptional person of high integrity to survive in those circumstances. I always like Racicot, and Bernie Sanders, Ron Paul and Ralph Nader. I think they have personal character. I think they survived in politics becuase they could not be reached.

Anyway, I'm kind of looking for common ground with you, trying to explain a little of what I think without the philosophical polarization. I do know where you are coming from.

And I don't know if that drug pipeline stuff is true. It was all written up by a small newspaper when the Internet was fairly new, and I've long lost track of it. I was just trying to explain some of the pressures on DC politicians.

Steve said...

I disagree that you "know where I am coming from." If anything, I think that you are far more predictable. But let me suggest a thought to ponder on: What if there really isn't a grand conspiracy that is cleverly hidden from the public's eyes by a willing press, and corrupt politicians.
What if, these really are the best that we have?

Mark T said...

Grand conspiracy? Why do you do this? Is the Mafia a "grand conspiracy"? Not hardly - "it" doesn't even exist. "It" is a collection of mostly like-minded people trying to achieve personal goals. It may look like they are working together, but they are not. They are often even at odds with one another. They are merely people responding to their environment, gathering power and using that power to achieve even more power. It's called capitalism. It needs to be regulated, or it feeds on itself and collapses.

That's all that is going on in Washington - power. It starts with money, and money should never be minimized, but there's much more to it. If you idealize politicians based on the letter by their names, you are going to miss most of the play.

I'm trying here - I'm trying to be understanding. I have the advantage of once having been a true-believing conservative, and I retain much of that philosophy. So I do know from whence you hail. I talked it, I walked it.

Steve said...

And I was once a True Democrat, but then I grew up.

Mark T said...

I guess I should not have expected any more than that from you.

My bad.